To Podcast or Not to Podcast With Jay Baer

To podcast or not to podcast that is the question at least it's the question a lot of marketers are asking because let's face it podcasting is popular. It's growing and it's booming fast, especially when it comes to Brand podcast while some people feel like everyone has a podcast these days others like me got excited to see podcasting gaining more traction in the B2B space depending on how long you've been a marketer or the okay. How long have you been around on this planet? How old you are? You may remember the same situation happening with blogging and other marketing channels it all starts with something for hobbyist gets adopted by Brands. And before we know it suddenly everyone had a Blog and most of us still do but would eventually we all learned with blogging will quickly be learned of podcasting. Yes. It's a really great way to connect with your audience, but you've got to do it really well. It's far too easy to launch a podcast.

Is a way of checking a box. That's how we get bad shows that no one wants to listen to so back to my original question to podcast or not to podcast and how do you know when the time is right for you? Hello everyone. I'm Lindsay check come on CEO and co-founder of casted the B2B podcast platform and this is our podcast.

Let's look at what it means to have a really great podcast and who better to start that conversation with then j-bear. He's the founder of the marketing advisory firm convince & convert, but you've likely heard him speak in an event read one of the several books including his most recent released talk triggers or maybe even heard him in a podcast. Like you're just about to hear today is a great friend of mine and he actually serves as an advisor of sorts here at casted today. He's going to give us a story that you probably haven't heard before of behind the mic. So to speak lives at his foray into podcasting as well as what advice he has for you as you get into it, too.

Chase Journey with podcasting began in 2012, but it wasn't his idea at all incredibly disingenuous. So it would be she would be disingenuous to suggest that I had some great podcast Epiphany. It was not that at all. In fact, it wasn't even my idea Eric Boggs who is a fantastic digital strategist. B2B sales genius runs a company now called rev boss at the time. He was the CEO of a company called Argyle social which was an early stage early days. Social media analysis software tool and Eric and I were friends and Andy said we should do a podcast together and I said should we and he said yes, and here's why because it will give both of us an opportunity to interview our future customers and it sounds like a good idea and and that was literally the full amount of consideration that I gave you.

Play podcast entry and and we started to show and we called the social prose and Eric and I co-hosted and that's exactly did we found people that we thought you know, what I would love to work for that company someday and instead of making a sales. We made a podcast gets caught. We said we're to have this amazing podcast. Could we talk to you for an hour, what you're doing and social media and we did.

The first thing we figured out was what what is the show and then why should the show exist in frankly? That's something that is still undervalued is is you know, there's no law that says you have to have a podcast to listen to your podcast. And so now with with so many more shows out there you can skip that step. What our big idea was is that look there's their shows out there about social media, but there's not shows out there about social media that celebrate the actual practitioner.

Hey, you know it's a lot of shows about tactics and it's that still is the case are shows not about tactics necessarily it's to celebrate until the stories of of the people who were doing the work rights of a tagline is always been a real people doing real work in in social media and it's all these unsung heroes who are leaving social media efforts for big companies, but nobody ever tells those stories right there. They're mostly Anonymous. So they're delighted to be on the show because they finally get to it to get some recognition for it and it and it makes for an interesting listen to stay awhile. How does this big company do social how do they deploy their resources? How do they measure success? How do they train their staff Etc? So one of the only smart things I think we've ever done is is 2 is to say we're going to do a show that nobody else has done and then stick to our knitting right not trying and and make it brighter or or acceptable to test small businesses are over everybody else. So what happens is that we have a lot of listeners and we're grateful for each and every one of them.

So we don't have as many as we could if we wanted to make a show for all people who do social media, but we don't it's a show only for people who are in big companies who are doing social media at scale and we're perfectly okay with that end in and that to the fundamental understanding of who you are and who your show serves is irreplaceable.

So he said that the end of the core of the show what it is and who it's for but it's his remains consistent. When do you know it's time to evolve something like what have been some of the triggers for you along the way to say, okay, maybe we need to pay attention to that. So maybe this is no longer enough for maybe it's time to take a closer. Look at this other thing.

In the past add more bits in the show, right? So some more others conversation, but then there's what we did a thing for a couple years called that the number of the week, which is it about something about statistic about social media. We talked about the number or are we have kind of the really interesting case study of the week until we used to augment the conversation with the guests with some set pieces Amazon. Can I call out send a little segments in the show and we we've moved away from that. We we got a lot of feedback from listeners and I totally just being out there on the road and meeting listeners that that you know, what they really prefer. It is a conversation didn't want to hear from the guest and to that end. We also have very much minimized the kind of pre-show banter between myself and and now my co-host not for years Adam Brown from Salesforce. And so Adam and I don't do a lot of hey, how are you what's going on? How you been since last week kind of free show me triola because people they just want to get into the meat of the show. So

As as some podcast have some added whistles and bells and segments and stuff. We've actually kind of strip that down right where it where are where we say. Alright, here's the shows about and it's really great. And here's why and thanks to our sponsors and then the show that we do now, which we never used to do is is we record video at the same time. So all three of us out of myself in the Gaston camera on Zoom. We do not publish it as a video podcast for a while. We were taking the full length shows and putting them on YouTube at as an actual YouTube video episode, but we didn't get a lot of traction there and it's it's not hard to see why I'm watching somebody talked for an hour is not it just not that great. So what we do now is we take the video.

And then our post production team essentially creates a 5-minute highlight reel of the most interesting statements and questions at cetera from each episode. And then we use that highlight reel on YouTube. Let me cut it down further and use it for more visual social media marketing like Instagram stories Etc. So we just figured hey if you for using a platform that allows for video you might as well grab video and we can use it as a promotional asset. We also are on occasion doing live shows not out of home, but we're actually record the show on Facebook live in LinkedIn live which allows listeners to ask questions of the guests in real time. And I just a little different way to reach the audience. We don't do it always but every once while we do a live show and it says, it's fun dip to break form a little bit.

One of the things that's changed the most is that you have to market the show more aggressively, right? So so when we take each episode and turn it into social media assets the time and care and frankly resources that are devoted to that now vs. Even three years ago is extraordinary because if a show gets published nobody listens to it did it actually exists and in so so we we spend a lot of time a lot of money on graphics and an audio grams in little Snippets for Instagram and then one for LinkedIn at anyone for this one for that. I didn't and the show notes send in all those things and it's become and it's a burdensome but it's not it's something that you can't just do what we did the show and congratulation didn't work like that.

Is content marketers we all know the work that goes into a project but we also know the value that's wrapped up within it and all the richness that makes up a piece of content or in the case of podcast all the value locked up within an episode. Yeah. It's an episode. But what is an episode in episode is a series of Great Moments.

They all just have to be recorded at the same time and if you think of your episode as just that not as one thing but as 6 8 10 15 things all of a sudden the way you merchandize the value of your podcast changes dramatically absolutely have a great conversation start with a conversation and then pull every piece out of it right music, right? So so the artist still create what I would call an album because I'm old but but they still create a V8 into many cases and release a collection of songs. It might be eight songs. That might be 14 songs. It's a collection of songs.

As always been the case is still the case in in most of the time and that's great. But I'm months that collection of songs. There's always one or two that are better write that stand out that those are the singles if you will what we have to do is stop thinking of podcast as an album and start thinking of a podcast episode as a series of singles. What's the hit single in this conversation and then use that to to merchandise at the show and in and your Brilliance and what have you

Why B2B podcast why if you're if you are representing a brand and you're thinking about a podcast you have a podcast why now? Why now? And where should your head be if you already have a podcast or you're thinking about doing one? What should our listeners be be thinking right now?

Well, there's no no replacement for the intimacy of podcasts that we talked so much about thought leadership and B2B and Anna podcast is the epitome of thought leadership because you can do a webinar and smoke tune in for that or you can publish an e-book and Sunil download that but but listening to you or you and your gas or whatever you're sure format is for 20, 30 40 50 60 Minutes a week that is a level of relationship and Authority that that cannot be rated in any other venue or platform because I said to you haters are going to do when I have a block right and we're going to try and get people to spend 45 minutes a week on the blog.

There's literally no circumstance by which that will happen. It is literally impossible yet that happens with B2B podcasting all the time all the time. So just it that you know, you think about hey, how do we build kinship with current and prospective customers podcast in my estimation is by far the best way to do that also podcast listenership in podcast consumption overall, it continues to go up and up and up especially in B2B because it is the only multitask Google medium. You can drive your car and listen to the podcast you can run and listen to the podcast you can use a snowblower or lawn mower your climate may very well listening it to a podcast you can do a lot of things I listen to a podcast. You cannot run the lawn mower and watch YouTube videos.

Environment many of your customers prospective customers listeners potential listeners are busy. I know he's busy busy busy busy and in so they think I could be listening to a podcast while I'm doing this other thing and so they consumption is going to continue to rise and now with all your smart speaker devices Amazon Google it cetera make accessing podcasts much easier Spotify is a podcast directory much easier in car podcast access much easier. So the ability to to to say, hey play this show has gotten manifestly simpler than it was even two years ago that will continue to increase podcast consumption as well. So and they call arrows point up but

That doesn't actually mean you should go out gas Mutual podcast if it's good, and if the audience needs what you have and can't get it anywhere else. So how do you know that? What's what's your advice to someone who's like, yeah, but wait, but I want to podcast. How did how how do you get there by Gene produces B2B podcasts for clients until we've had this exact same conversation many many times.

Here's the thing that it always flummox is me and I'm I'm difficult to flummox the good word. Thank you. They people will come to us and say we want to do a podcast the great I say, okay. Well what of all the other shows that are already out there on this topic. Do you like best and why?

And there's always silence.

And they say oh there's other shows like that.

I always think okay. Well if you were going to if you were going to make a motorcycle, you might want to know what other motorcycles are for sale because what if you trade a motorcycle that nobody wants cuz they're already is one like that and podcasts are the same and this didn't you not doing it a sort of environmental scan on on what is out there on that topic and not only like just doing a look up but actually listening to three episodes. That's why we require be quiet. So you must listen to three episodes of every show that conceivably covers the same topic and then give us a book report essentially on what you like and don't like about those shows unless you've done that you should not start a shop ever.

I love that. I love walking into a Machine Gun Nest in less. You have done that.

It's so true because I think a lot of pockets things actually starting to get a little bit a little bit of a bad name and some space is because it's like everybody everyone has a and that's that's beautiful too beautiful thing that you wasn't that long ago that that's where we were with blogs. Right and everyone can and should have the ability to to do this thing. But set your expectations accordingly, right as if you if you just want to have a podcast from take my podcast fine, but if you expect it to make any significance on your brand just like anything else any other content strategy you have what's in it for your listener, but why why would they listen to you instead of literally anything else and I'll strap in and with so many more I cast my online and there's an average quality of a successful podcast is going to go up and up and up right? So you got to have good audio. You have to have a good house you can just take

Bob and make him your house because Bob happens to be in charge of product marketing being in charge of product marketing and being a good podcast host is not the same job.

Right now we might be lucky and Bob happens to be incredibly loquacious and grab the microphone and end in so, you know Bob is the right person but I see this all the time. So it will we're going to put a podcast host based on job. I don't like that what that doesn't make any sense to have a different host every week because somebody different from the company is that talk about each topic each week know that is terrible for The Listener. There's people have to realize fundamentally that podcast of course very informative on the B2B side, but it's still entertainment, right? And even you two couldn't couldn't be like you had a new album This Is Us playing like cigar boxes and kazoos. This is our kazoo album and it's going to be fine cuz people write but I feel like a lot of B2B podcast are essentially a kazoo album right is just like yeah, we have a podcast Ergo we've succeeded no,

If you don't have a good podcast do I have no listeners? You have no listeners. You have no value. All you've done is waste money.

What I see if I should be to be his people start a B&B podcast cuz I feel like they should as you mentioned earlier. It's more like the new blog like yeah, we got to have a blog the blog and now it's on Catherine podcast. OK and I think you should have a podcast but be really really clear on why and how you're going to measure success and it can't just be listens. It can't just be downloads because you can't, you know, you can't pay your employees are downloads. So so I understand what you're really trying to achieve and then and then measure the podcast in your satisfaction with an F ra while based on that right when I see a lot as well start a B2B podcast at your first six months and then we can reassess it and say, well, you know what? I really sure what is doing for us. So maybe we should stop doing it never won. It takes a long time to find an audience. Right? So if you're out in six months are doomed to fail and number two and you know understand what it's really doing for your business, you know, look at look at you or spike in SEO look at your bike in people Mensch.

In the show to your customer success team, like there's all these other signals that indicate that the show is doing something for your brand Beyond just how many people downloaded the show.

For the show / for your guests. What what has it done for candidates in convert? What is the show meant to your business into your brand?

It's it's hard to say definitively what the show has done for convince & convert and in the company partially because of the anonymise nature of podcast listeners, but there's no question that convincing ever is very much associated with social pros and and vice versa and it is almost inconceivable that a client of ours wouldn't listen to the show at this point. It is it's almost hand-in-glove and it also allows us and me in particular to to get insights on how other companies are doing Enterprise social media and then think about huh, that's interesting that they're doing that maybe we should explore that for our clients, right? It's almost it's almost a conversational sounding board for advanced social media strategies, which is the work that we do for a company. So it's it's almost

Living Focus Group 1 week at a time until the the learning element for me. And for our team is something that I definitely don't discount.

Show not to give convincing convert, but for you personally what have been some of the highlights whether it's something you just really enjoy or something that you've gotten out of podcast. It is it's one of my favorite things to do because very rarely do I get to just have a conversation with somebody where there's not some kind of agenda or outcome or structure or circumstance and in the way Adam and I treat the show is let's just ask smart questions and let people answer them and it's a real pleasure at what I've gotten to know so many incredible leaders in the social media space have been on the show some of whom have become clients most of them have not but but it's just it's a real joy to to get to meet some of those folks and and sometimes it'll come back on the show after after years and years and years and you can kind of refresh the story. I'll tell you this.

I've written six books. I do 60 some keynote speeches a year. I've written thousands and thousands of blog posts. The thing that I get the most comments on the thing that people come up to me and say hey I love it is I guess more than everything else because there is no replacement.

For the intimacy of talking into somebody's head for 45 minutes a week, but this isn't and in so that the social Pros listeners.

Are by far the group it's much more likely to actually come up to me at an event and say I listen to show I love the show. I love this Gaston and that is incredibly rewarding and and continues to be

that's it for today's show. Thanks to my friend jber for being today's guests are very first guests and to learn more about Jay and to see casted in action with clips of this episode and related content. Is it casted. Us. Thanks so much for listening.